Bus engine recipe thread

[commercialair]

A number of our members have recently built or are currently building new engines for their rides. I thought this thread could be used to showcase some of those engines and include build specs, dyno results, and/or general opinions of how the engines are performing/going together.

Everyone has a different intent and expectation in their engine design. It will be certainly informative to those thinking about building a new engine and hopefully stop a few costly mistakes along the way.

Just a note: this thread is not limited to performance engines, or even bus specific ones. Stock to race, T1, T2, T3, and T4 are all welcome to contribute.



I'll start with my basic build sheet for my DC's new stove.


2007 cc, T1 engine, 8.6:1 compression (bottom end):
Auto Linea aluminum case, full flow, clearanced and cut for 90.5
CB 78 mm crank
Stock weight flywheel, Daiken clutch disk, Stage 1 press. plate
EMPI 5.4" H beam rods, ARP bolts
Kolbenschmidt main and rod bearings
Chromoly head studs and hardware
Engle 100 w/1.25 ratio rockers, Mahle bearings (?)
Udo Becker lifters
Mahle/Cima 90.5 B p&c's, stock wrist pin clips
40 X 35.5 heads, high rev single springs
SS pushrod tubes, Manton pushrods
Stock valve covers w/vents
Berg 1.5 deep sump
Shadeck 26mm oil pump w/CB cover
A1 1 1/2" sidewinder exhaust and modified heater boxes
Full balance on all parts

(top end):

"Berg special" 42 DCNF carbs, manifolds, and linkage
MSD 6 ignition
welded fan
T4 oil cooler, modified doghouse
Bosch alternator
CB breather box
Stock fuel pump
Hard stainless fuel lines and fittings
Braided stainless/teflon oil lines
SACO billet gen. and alt. pulleys
OG VW tin, powdercoated

That's about it. I'm hoping for a reliable and strong engine. Certainly nothing to tear up the track with, but I'd like to be able to keep up with traffic and stop sweating the hills. Gas mileage hasn't even crossed my mind. Reliable and cool running is the goal.


Comments, suggestions??
What about the new ones out there? Keith, Ken, Mark, JJ, and anyone else?

[riffraff]

Excellent idea for a thread Brother!

Here's the specs for the 2L Freddy and I built over the winter.
2007 cc (or is it a 2017??), T1 engine, 8.3:1 compression
(bottom end):
Auto Linea high roof aluminum case, full flow, clearanced and cut for 90.5
CB 78 mm crank
Lightened flywheel, Stock clutch
EMPI 5.4" H beam rods, ARP bolts
Kolbenschmidt main and rod bearings
Chromoly head studs and hardware
Engle 100 w/1.25 AJ Simms ratio rockers,
Mahle lifters
Mahle/Cima 90.5 B p&c's, stock wrist pin clips
CB 40 X 35.5 heads, high rev single springs mild port and polish
Port matched manifolds and gaskets
Stock pushrod tubes, Chrome molly pushrods
Stock valve covers w/o vents
Shadeck 32mm oil pump w/CB cover
Cheap 1 3/8 exhaust and stock heater boxes
Full balance on all parts by Ron Derry
AJ Simms 46mm Kads, AJ linkage and welded manifolds
VW SVDA
35mm fan
T4 oil cooler, modified doghouse
Bosch alternator
Stock fuel pump with fuel pressure regulator and gauge
Hydraulic hose and fittings on oil lines
OG VW tin - Breast tin modified to accomodate welded manifolds

The 2L I built for my 15 is almost identical to what you have spec'd out Chris - but I like your spec's a little better.
I went with a lightened flywheel on mine and stock clutch. I realized when my brake shoes glued themselves to the drums that my engine has more torque than the stock clutch can contain when pushed. I have a Kennedy Stage 1 on the shelf and I think I will get it balanced and install it.
I also see no advantage to running a lightened flywheel in a bus (although it isn't really a disadvantage). I think more angular momentum is better in a bus, (less in a spry Beetle)
I will be pulling the engine in the fall to add a "ram air" cooling tube through the front right tin, so I think I may change flywheel and clutch at that time.
I have a bigger oil pump and I really don't think I need that much oil volume in a mild engine. It can stay, but if I build a 1955 for the Mango, it will be 26 mm.
I like having the Type 4 oil cooler, even though there are differing opinions on how much difference it really makes.
My IR heat gun registers a max oil temp of 103 C after a highway run and around 80 C running around town.
I have no sump - figuring that the full flow oil filter is the biggest favour I can do my engine via the oil. I may entertain a small sump as there are minor cooling advatages with a small sump.
I have AJ Simms 1.25:1 rockers on mine. I like the design of them and the ease of valve adjustment. I don't like the fact that they are not metric.
If I use the Boat Anchor, or if I build a 1955 for the Mango, I will use AJ rockers again.
I have a stock VW SVDA distributor.
I have an Engle 100 in mine as well and it still grunts pretty good out of the hole and pulls strong north of 5500 RPM. That is as high as I've rev'd it and it felt like it could do more.

I have a cheap 1 3/8 exhaust with stock heater boxes on mine, but it really should have a 1 1/2" sidewinder. (Another winter modification)

I get about 19 MPG with a combination of highway and city driving.
I wanted exactly what you said you wanted for yours. I really like this combo and it pulls the bus around very respectably. I was aiming for 100 HP and 110 ft lbs at the wheels. I'd like to dyno it to see what I've got.

[riffraff]

One other thing I would like to add is a little bit of engine building philosophy- a few things that (I think)should be incorporated into every build.
Apart from measuring everything nine ways to Sunday to be absolutely certain that all spec's are bang on -
Every engine should have all the moving parts balanced before installation.
Every crankshaft should be counterweighted.
All manifolds should be port matched
Also, I think that a mild port and polish of any heads is a good idea


(Any idea how I get my 40 horse crank counterweighted?)

[commercialair]

riffraff said:

One other thing I would like to add is a little bit of engine building philosophy- a few things that (I think)should be incorporated into every build.
Apart from measuring everything nine ways to Sunday to be absolutely certain that all spec's are bang on -
Every engine should have all the moving parts balanced before installation.
Every crankshaft should be counterweighted.
All manifolds should be port matched
Also, I think that a mild port and polish of any heads is a good idea


(Any idea how I get my 40 horse crank counterweighted?)

Excellent advise. I should also add that I'm going to get Darren Krewenchuk to do his magic with the heads.

And, 40 horse counterweighting here:

www.demellocranks.com

[rareair]

Not for bus use, but for the 56 oval. Street/strip configuration of course. I figure I may as well think out loud here cause it's been some time since I put it together.

2332cc 84x94
9.7:1 compression
AS21 FI case full flowed (low miler)
84mm CB CW crank
5.5 CB H beam rods with ARP's
94mm mahle P&C's (that I balanced, and boy were they out!!!)
Berg wrist pin clips
Berg K8 cam with Mahle black lifters
Magnum straight cut gears
Berg Manton pushrods
30mm Berg pump with pressure cover
Berg 1.5 quart sump
CB 044 heads 42mm int 37.5mm exh P&P by Kroc
Scat 1.5:1 rockers
12.5# flywheel
Stage 2 Kennedy with ACE Copperhead disc
Stock valve covers (breathers in heads)
48IDA's (reworked by Tweds)
short Scat manifolds, and Ramflo aircleaners (for the street)
CSP bell crank linkage
36hp shroud and OE German tin with welded fan
Setrab oil cooler with fan and thermostat
1 3/4" A1 Sidewinder with polished muffler
Mallory Unilite dist. and control box with 2 step
CE crank pulley
fuel pump to be determined but most likely will be a Mallory dead head unit

Chris, good call on the Udo Becker lifters. Alan has beat on the ones in his 2332 and those things still look like new. If I were to build mine again it would have those in it. Consider the Mallory over the MSD...lots of people are finding it to be a superior unit due to less scatter at higher RPM.

[bullyboy]

Okay I'll play too....
AS41 case machined by rimco
for 90.5, clearanced for 82 crank, full flow.
45 Dellorto carburators
CB 3125 hex bar linkage and air cleaners
CB offset manifolds match ported by K-Roc
CB 1154 82mm stroke super race crank
CB 1290 super race rods 5.50”
90.5 B Mahle/Cima Pistons
CB straight cut gears
CB 2288 cam
CB 28mm Lifters
CB 1.4 Rockers
Heads by K-Roc :40 X 35.5 dual springs
9.4 compression
12lb chromoly flywheel
Kennedy stage 1, stock clutch plate
1 5/8 A1 sidewinder exhaust system (the best money you'll ever spend on an exhaust)
Schaedek 30mm oil pump
puma low profile shroud
CB 1770 thin line oil sump 1.½ quart
MSD billet dizzy, coil, 8.5mm wires
MSD 6AL (rev limiter is a good thing)
fuel flo electric fuel pump
My 61'ish beetle without me weighs in at 1870lbs
I picked the size motor and asked Darren what combo to get and what compression to make it work.
I love it. We cruise around at 2500rpm putting along and when you put your foot in it "she goes" nudge nudge wink wink.......

And Dorinda has it's twin in the works for her 73' Super

[bullyboy]

Some good reading on the oil filter end of things

minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

[commercialair]

You know the best way to get people to post is to ask them what's in their engine. ;D

This is great guys. Thanks and keep contributing.

Trevor, I'll check out the Mallory units. I don't think scatter is going to be an issue with the low revs I'm going to push. Still, great info and another option for ignition. Can you explain the "2 step" part?

Also, Mark I lost brain cells trying to take in all that oil filter knowledge. Awesome link! And to think we gave Keith a hard time about the hub cap clip testing I'm still thinking System One. Anybody else have an opinion?

What about oil lines? Mark, you're using hydro lines right? I like that idea. What about fitting? Brass from Princess Auto?

[bullyboy]

The fittings in the hydraulic section of Princess are all steel.
I bought the lines from Motion Canada.
I had both the Mallory and the MSD box on the counter at Mopac , fred's buddy told us he has less returns from the MSD units and it's a straight exchange. With the Mallory he has to send it back then Mallory will decide whether it is warranty or not. In the mean time you are without a box. Plus all the searching through forums pointed me towards MSD.
The Mallory dizzy is still the best one out there because you can add a vaccuum can to it if you want.

[rareair]

bullyboy said:

.
The Mallory dizzy is still the best one out there because you can add a vaccuum can to it if you want.

Plus it's an optical pickup instead of magnetic. Hook a timing light up to an MSD, then a Mallory, and the differance will be noticeable right away...true & accurate timing.
The nice thing about the Mallory CDI is that it has adjustable rev limiters. The MSD uses the PITA RPM pills (which= more money if you wanna change them out). Can't comment on the reliabtility yet, but I haven't heard too much bad about them.

Chris, a 2 step is basically a 2 stage rev limiter. One for launching and one for max RPM protection. With your application you won't need anything too fancy....you can even run the Mallory without the CDI.

[ken]

Ok, Here is the recipe for the little mill in Rosie. I should start off by saying I am super happy with the performance of it. It was built with a bus application in mind, and it works better than I was ever hoping.

1955cc Type 1

Balanced by Ron Derry. www.custombalancing.com



Empi (auto lenea) alum. Case.
CB 74 mm Non- nitrided forged crank.
Empi 5.4" I beam rods W/ARP bolts.
Stock Cam.
AA 90.5 piston Cyl kit.
CB "los banditos" heads -35.5X40mm non-ported heads.
Empi 1.25-1 rockers.
Empi Chromoly pushrods- stock length
Shadeck 30mm oil pump.
Non-full flow. (I'll just change the oil every 2000 miles)
No sump. (too low)
Type 4 oil cooler.
40mm Kadrons. (50 idle jets, 135 mains- I might lean those down a bit)
Scat linkage.
009 distributor Bosch, with Electronic ign.
Bosch Alternator.
Stock fuel pump
Scat serpentine pulley kit.
All VW tin, modified fanshroud for the T4 cooler.
1.5" A-1 sidewinder exhaust


7.9 compression.


The results- on the Dyno.... 64 hp and 103 ft/lbs. By no means a race motor, but pulls like mad with all that torque and runs cool all day long.

Special thanks to Mr Fred Falcao for the help on break-in night, and Burt Campbell for help with the build.

During the Build



Partially finished. Before the Serp belt kit.

[dpeters81westy]

Ok, so it's not a Bus engine (but being a Universal Type 1 case...it COULD be one).
My engine, the one with the smallest budget goes as follows.

1641cc "warmed up stocker"
Stock "universal" case.
Stock 69mm Crank
Stock rebuilt connecting rods
Engle 110 Cam with Aluminum bolt-on gear (Thanks Chris!)
CB performance Full Flow (high volume) oil pump. ( although I'm being encouraged to get a Shadek and use the full-flow cover)
87mm Pistons and cylinders (Cofaps...sorry)
Bernie Bergmann Heads 40x35.5,single high rev springs, hardened keepers, 3 angle valve job, blended ports and a mild Chris Murray polish job.
Stock remachined lifters (Thanks Mark!)
EMPI stock length Performance Push Rods.
Stock push-rod tubes
SCAT 1.25:1 ratio rockers with swivel foot adjusters
Bosch 009 with a Perlux style "zero points" ignition.
Bosch Blue Coil
Dual WEBER 34 ICT Weber carbs (rebuilt by me) with Short manifolds and Hex-Bar linkage.
36HP style fanshroud with stock dog-house oil cooler.
Alternator instead of generator.
Stock heater boxes with welded flanges to my 4-to-1 header and into some Gene Berg dual quiet-packs.
...oh, and a lightened Flywheel and stock clutch.

Not fancy, but a similar engine made my Brother's Beetle a LOT of Fun to drive.

- Doug