Another bus question, hard cranking.

[Milkman]

Ok, for this one I need some real guidance. My '60 (still 6 volt) cranks hard sometimes. Other times it cranks over easy & fires right up. But when in cranks hard it acts like the battery is going dead, to the point that it just clicks. Brand new 6 volt battery. After one of the click incidents tonight, I decided to check the battery connections to be sure they were tight & clean. Well, I burnt my fingers on the positive terminal! BTW, they are both tight & clean too.

I'm thinking I have a bad or corroded connection somewhere. Tomorrow night I plan to clean every connection I can find, I just need someone to push me in the right directionso I don't miss any. Could there be anything else I'm overlooking here too? I did note that this happens more when the bus is hot after running or driving. Should I do the hard start solenoid trick if I can get my hands on a 6 volt solenoid?

Greg

[Mowser]

I'd say you are on the right track. Be sure to check the tranny ground strap and the ground off the battery(on the chassis end). I've found in my experience with any car that bad grounds are the primary cause for grief. Your point about the Positive terminal being hot is leading me away from this though. Since it's the starting circuit it shouldn't be too difficult to find the problem spot.

My second thought would be the starter itself. You mention it gets worse when the bus has been running or driving. Heat can do alot of strange things. Myself I'd be tempted to pull the starter and strip it down and clean everything. Then I'd put it back together but Electricity is how I make my living so I'm keen to tear into electrical components. Pay special attention to the positive connections at the starter. All the positive terminals for the bus are connected there. One bad or corroded connection and You'll have heat buildup. Happy hunting.

[Milkman]

The starter is supposedly new, but I will take a good look when I'm in there tonight. Digging in my box of goodies I did find a new 6 volt F*rd style solenoid, so I will wire than in just as an added security. I'll also clean every connection.

That super hot battery post does have me worried though. Seriously, it was hot! I only touched it for a second & I have a hugh heat blister on my finger now.

[riffraff]

The only other thing I can think of is that the bushing in the transaxle is either worn or missing. If that is the case, the armature will not centre properly and can cause serious frictional drag.
The other thing is that, if the battery post is getting that hot, the energy from the battery is being transfered into heat instead of rotational motion. That being the case, the most heat will be generated at the point of greatest resistance. If this logic follows (and Mowser can correct me if I'm wrong), you must have a resistive connection between the battery post and the cable clamp. There may be greater resistance elsewhere in the system too, but you know for sure that you have it at the hot post on the battery. That probably only shows up when there is serious drag on the starter( for whatever reason). I would think that there must also be a tremendous amount of heat generated in the starter when it cranks "hard".
I don't know if my musing out loud here helps any, but the bushing is still a possibility.
Good luck with it.

[Milkman]

1st things 1st, checked the tranny ground strap. The nut was only finger tight! Cleaned that all up & tightened it. Thanks Mowser.

Installed the hard start relay anyway, cleaned all the connections, replaced the plugs, set the valves (which were way too tight!) changed the oil & gapped the points. Then it wouldn't start, no spark! Cranked over nice though, finally. I finally found that the points had bridged, so I filed them & re-gapped. Then it fired up! Purrs like a kitten now!

Still found that every once in a while the starter sounds almost like it is binding, I think that bushing is going Keith. I'll have to check that next.

Drove back home from the shop, shut the bus off in the garage & then tried to start it again, nothing. No headlights, dash lights, nothing. Wiggled the positive cable, which is tight on the battery & clean, then it would crank again. So at least I know I need a new positive cable. Sheesh!

Well I think I have almost everything sorted out now, thanks everyone. I'm still a total Newbie with this 6 volt stuff.

Greg

[Mowser]

Take a REAL good and I mean REAL GOOD look at the battery itself. Remove it all together from the bus and take hold of the positive terminal with something you can get a good grip with. (Vise Grips or channel locks) I've only ever seen it once before but it was a distaster. The terminal on the battery going into the actual battery could be loose. It sound wrong in the head but check it. The instance that I came across was a Industrial 2 Volt cell used in the million dollar Custom Motor Home industry. Ya wanna talk about current I found this one on a routine inspection of a Coach we had in our shop (BRUCE COACH) www.brucecoachinc.com/products.htm

Anyways the battery was in the middle of a grouping (24 - 2 volt cells grouped and wired together to make 24 volts and way too much current) the battery got so hot that it ruptured a small hole and was leaking out the side. All from a defective positive terminal. It would spin inside the battery. My guess is that the battery would have exploded had it not been in the middle of the grouping.

Riffraff you make a good point. If the source of the heat is the connection then that is likely the source of the problem. If it's the cable then it's current along the path that is causing it.

[Milkman]

The battery is only 3 weeks old, but I will be sure to check that. I havn't ever seen that on a top post battery, but I see it fairly often on the GM style side post batteries at work.

Regardless I will change the postive cable anyway. The negative one is new, so why not right? ;D

Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate the advice. BTW, not being used to 6 volt, how fast should it crank over anyway?

[Milkman]

Was watching CSI & it just came to me! So simple I can't believe I overlooked it! Even though I took the positive cable off of the battery, cleaned the post & clamp & re-installed it, I never checked the condition of the cable itself to the clamp. Undid the 2 little bolts, slightly loose, & pulled the cable out. Corroded all to heck! Snipped & re-stripped the cable end, cleaned the clamp & re-assembled. Now she fires up like a brand new bus!!!

It need all the other maintenance anyway........ right?

Greg

[Mowser]

Glad you found the fix.

[riffraff]

Dancing Banana for running down an electrical issue. Those can be nightmares

[Milkman]

Well the cranking issues are all good now. The engine spins over like it has a booster pack on the battery! But now there are some other problems....

The 1500 starts good, idles good once it warms up. The choke is toast, I have a new one on the way. But it misses under load & pops a bit. Any ideas?

[commercialair]

Timing or intake/exhaust leak my be the culprit. If that old govenor is still on there, you may want to swap it for a carb spacer instead ( $20 at CIP or C1). It may be leaking there. Glad it's starting better for you now! and another DB for you!

Chris

[Milkman]

Thanks Chris! I totaly forgot about what was left of that old governer. I was going to re-build the carb too, but other than the dead choke it doesn't seem bad. I will get a spacer coming though & get the governer out of there.

I took her out for the 1st 100kph drive this morning. Boy, is that a different experiance from driving my beetle! ;D

Greg